STORIES OF COMMUNITY RESILIENCE

Episode Description

This episode is hosted by Shy Ganglani – a poet and stand-up comedian working professionally as a copywriter, and Hawraa Kash – a spoken word poet, MC and HR professional.

Hawraa and Shy preview their upcoming event presented by Vibe Union – Poets for Palestine a fundraising event for PARA Foundation. They speak about poetry as a form of resistance, and resilience. 

Transcript Available Here: 

Transcript

Note: This transcript is automatically generated and may contain errors.

Rebecca: Hello and welcome to another episode of Stories of Community Resilience on 3ZZZ. I’m Rebecca and today I’m joined by Shy, a poet and stand up comedian working professionally as a copywriter who was recently featured on the series. Interviewed by Ruhee, where we talked about the concept of resilience and why it’s often a tricky point for culturally and linguistically diverse folks and what that means to us. So do go back and listen. If you missed that episode, and also the lovely Hawraa, who is a spoken word poet, MC and HR professional. Today Shy and Hawraa are going to talk to you all about an upcoming event called Poets for Palestine, which is in its third installation, and what it’s all about and how you can join in and attend. I’m going to be kicking back in the background of this episode because I feel they have to say is far more important than what I have to say. So without further ado, I’ve got Hawraa and Shy, welcome.

Hawraa: Thank you for having us. Before we go any further, we’d like to do an acknowledgement of country. We acknowledge the Bounurong Boonwurrung and Wurundjeri woiwurrung peoples of the eastern Kulin nations as the traditional custodians of the land on which we are recording at the moment and recognise the past atrocities against Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples of this land, and that Australia was founded on the genocide and disposition of the First Nations people. I pay my respects to elders. Past, present and emerging. Sovereignty was never ceded. It always was, and it always will be Aboriginal land. Amen. Hello Shy.

Hawraa: It’s good to be here with you.

Shy: It’s fantastic to be here with you on Eid. Eid Mubarak!

Hawraa: Thank you. Eid Mubarak to you too. It’s either today and yesterday for those celebrating. Thank you.

Shy: Wonderful. what are we talking about today? Poets for Palestine.

Hawraa: Poets for Palestine. So, despite the circumstances, it’s awesome to be here with you and talking about something that’s actually really wonderful. Again, despite the circumstances in which we’re coming together. But I think it’s great that we’re coming together.

Shy: Yeah, I agree yeah. It’s important. Very important. Connection, resilience, those things. Absolutely. Poetry for Palestine is running on June 26th, June 26th at the Grace Darling Hotel in Collingwood. As Rebecca was saying, and it’s third installation. and if I remember correctly, you have been emceeing this one from the start. Correct. So this is three for three.

Hawraa: It is so I emceed the first one in January and that was at a different venue. And it was the it was Vibe Union’s first run a fundraiser for Palestine. They’d reached out um wanting to make sure that their, you know, consulting with the right people. Ry and Jason, these two white dudes that have been awesome in their allyship reached out and asked me to emcee and also to kind of consult on, um, you know, who to engage with. So, uh, it ended up drawing a bigger crowd than expected, spilling out onto the streets.

Hawraa: Spilling out into the streets! It did, in fact, actually and when they unfortunately were like, well, this issue is still going, let’s do a number two. That’s when you and I banded together and we went to Grace Darling, which was a bigger venue, and that was back in. When was that? In March, February, February. It was February, yeah. Oh my God, February. And now we’re in June. Oh yeah.

Shy: I just remember reaching out to you and saying like for when the first one happened. Mhm. And we were like well hopefully we get to work together on the next one. Yeah. And you said, well hopefully there is no next one, there’s no need for a next one. Yeah. And it was like it was an obvious but heartbreaking realization of like I think we both knew there would be a next one, but. You know why. Why is there a need for a next one. Mhm. Which is –

Hawraa: And the fact that we’ve been planning this for some time and talking about number three for some time knowing like there was this kind of not confidence but uh, certainty that it will still be needed, which is so bleak.

Shy: Yeah. And that’ll get worse.

Hawraa: Yeah.

Shy: And it does I don’t know it sometimes it feels like. Are we just tricking ourselves into thinking everything’s getting a little bit better in the world is like finding out. And the truth is being told, and the rallies are getting more crowded, and then you’re like, but what is actually changing? Yeah.

Hawraa: Like what is actually happening? I mean, the numbers, the casualties, the death toll keeps increasing, the, destruction keeps increasing the toll that it’s taking on Palestine, the people in Gaza, West Bank, as well as not getting the spotlight, quite deliberately. The south of Lebanon and the Golan Heights and Syria, the occupied Golan Heights it just continues to unfold. And the level of destruction in terms of having to come back from and to bounce back from just keeps increasing. But we’re here, we’re soldiering on, and persisting in our forms of resistance and poetry being one of them.

Hawraa: The first two events we raised, uh, close to 3K, for PCF Palestinian Children Relief Fund. This time, though, we are pivoting. We’re going for PARA foundation, the Palestine Australian Relief and Action Foundation. That’s what Para stands for. they’re a newly created, not for profit,  co-founded by two Palestinian women here in Australia, one based in Gadigal, Sydney and the other here in Naarm.

Shy: I didn’t know it was co-founded by two Palestinian women, that’s amazing.

Hawraa: Yes, Samah Sabawi is one of them, she’s remarkable,an academic and a poet in this space. And she’s been doing a lot of advocacy for Palestinians and getting them here. So there’s a number of Gazans that have been granted some, I’m not I can’t remember what it’s called. Visas.

Shy: Some kind of some kind of visa.

Hawraa: Humanitarian visa with extremely limited, rights for like a better wording. So they come with the clothes on their back and unable to access Medicare, Centrelink, any kind of social services and supports. They can’t work on these visas either. So PARA Foundation was set up to provide support for Palestinians while they’re in Australia to help them achieve their full potential, free from the barriers that have been created by conflict and displacement. To just kind of set them up. So it’s kind of blown up and it’s been amazing to see, how much it’s picked up. PARA Foundation and the work that they’re doing across Gadial and Naarm,for newly arrived Gazans. To the point where Samah als went to Cairo because there was one point where the Australian government just haphazardly cancelled some of the visas that they had granted, and you had people stuck in Cairo and Istanbul that were en route to Australia.

Shy: And so she went over there?

Hawraa: There and she went over there physically to get them over here. So yeah, PARA Foundation’s been doing incredible work. So that’s why if you remember when we were talking about doing number three, we were. We’re like, we to shift focus, and help newly arrived Gazans. This is something that’s tangible. It’s practical. It’s going to go straight to the source, like straight to the people in need. Yeah. and it’s going to have, you know, a tangible impact. So, um, it was really great to see the whole team, you know, yourself. Rye. Jason Yaru, Very quickly jump on board with that pivot. So that was really wonderful and reassuring for me, at least when I made that suggestion, you guys were like, yes, absolutely.

Shy: I mean, we’re pretty much like that with everything you suggest. We’re like, Hawraa is our leader? We will do whatever. [laugheter]

Hawraa: No, no. Oh goodness. The confidence is overwhelming.

Shy: Yeah. I mean, look you I was like I wasn’t there for the first one. And then I was obviously there for the second one. And then we emceed that one together. And you are such a natural on stage. But I remember we did the podcast before that and.  i don’t think I’d seen you in action action before on stage like other than it, like your features and stuff, but like, really to, like, emcee an event, but I remember at the, the podcast recording before you were like the first time someone put like a mic in my hand, like, I was like, I was born for the stage. Yeah. Like, I don’t understand why I’ve ever spoken without a mic before. And I was like. Panicking, looking through all of my like notes and my script of an emcee was like, I need my phone, I’m scattered. I’m all over the place today. And you were just like, phone in the pocket completely just. No props needed. Just like commanding the room somehow. Like the like. I feel like you were a maestro of the room. Really? Because it was like the poets would come share really, really wonderfully, beautifully written content and heavy content and and the rooms energy would be rightfully sombre and reflective. And yet you would come on and you would. It’s not like you would. You did this thing that I have never really seen before in, like in entertainment or like at these shows, which you managed to lighten the room without lighting the subject matter or trivializing the subject matter. And it was. That’s truly incredible.

Hawraa: That’s very, very generous. That’s so generous. I think I got lucky because early on, when I was back in Sydney, emceeing, you know, grassroots community events. And I’m also talking about, you know, minority communities, not necessarily artistic spaces. One of the pieces of advice I was given was they’re not there to see me. And, I’m responsible for the tone and the pace of the night. And it stuck. So that’s become one of my favorite parts of emceeing is the ability to, for lack a better wording and removing the negative connotation behind this word, but basically manipulate the energy of the room.

Shy: Yeah, 100%. That is, that is.

Hawraa: And I see that as like a challenge. It’s very fulfilling when I get that kind of feedback. So thank you. That’s very generous.

Shy: It’s very true. And you’re welcome.

Hawraa: Thank you. It’s truly I think the my favorite part, though, was how our energies bounced off of each other and seamless. It was for you and I to kind of just work together. I don’t know about you, but I got a lot of feedback about how great our chemistry was on stage, and I hadn’t actually seen you in that capacity either. So I didn’t know what to expect. I just knew you were a boss because I’d seen you perform poetry and just absolutely own the stage and the room and just completely captivate our hearts, minds, bodies,  probably other parts of me, too. I’m not gonna lie. [laughter] Um, quietly. Girl crushing. And then I’d seen you in the comedy space as well, but I hadn’t seen you in, like, that mic space, so it was amazing. And also, I have to also, um, uh, give a shout out to the fact that you connected me with these guys, and, you know, you set this whole thing up to begin with. And I think it’s such a big credit to you the way that you’ve nurtured these networks, um, and these connections and the way that you pay it forward consistently. And the amount of times I’ve had people slide into my DMs for like, podcast features or whatever, and they’re like, um, Shirai recommended you, and you came so highly regarded. And I was like, what is this woman saying?

Shy: I mean, the truth, totally the truth.

Hawraa: But it’s it’s everything to me. Like the way that you pay it forward. I think that that’s it’s so critical and it speaks so, um, highly of, you know, your character and your work ethic and your integrity. And I’m just so grateful for it, honestly. And I’m so happy. I mean, again, context aside and the circumstances aside, I’m really grateful that I get to do this stuff with you 100%.

Shy: You have turned into like a mentor. Like, what do you call those people that you go to, like, talk to and like confession? You know what a priest? No. Like, I don’t know, just like a confidant, a confidant. The word I’m looking for.

Hawraa: Oh, that’s an honor.

Shy: Yeah. And like, I always, like, message you when I’m like, I don’t know what to do about this situation with this, like, event organizers or like this fundraiser or this whatever. Um, because you have the a healthy dose of skepticism that I severely lack with my golden retriever energy. Yeah.

Hawraa: I’m so glad you see it as a healthy dose, because it’s been a fine line that I’ve been actively trying to walk, and it’s something I had to learn very quickly and very early on and the hard way. So I like to think that that’s my way of kind of paying it forward is like making sure especially like women in spaces like this, are being equipped to have these conversations and to make sure that they’re not, jumping the gun with their. Yes, and their willingness and their capacity. And they’re making sure like they’re doing their due diligence in protecting themselves and their message. Yeah.

Shy: Which is important. And authenticity, which is a great segue into, yes, the context of this fundraiser, I guess, or that in context of this fundraiser, which is. The authenticity of some of the fundraisers are, you know, naturally and necessarily pulled into question. I think one of the, the nicest things that you’d or one of the most impressive things rather that you did when I first told you about the fundraising, I didn’t know you was you asked “Who is Vibe Union? What are these boys like, what is their background, what are they and why are they interested in this? What other kind of activism?” Absolutely. You wanted to get to the root at the bottom of it. Like I’ve asked you about other features before. And you were like, I asked the organizer organizers like, you know what? Like if it is going to be in in a religious institution, what faith did they follow? You ask those questions that I think a lot of us want to ask, but perhaps don’t because we’re just like, at least something good is being done about it. I guess the question is, what do you think is different about this fundraiser to some of the other fundraisers around.

Hawraa: Absolutely. I think what’s really different about this one, it’s, it’s a couple of layers. I think the first one though, it’s not a bunch of people that are coming and saying, oh, um, you know, poor Palestine, let’s throw money at it. I think it’s a space of collective healing. People are coming together to, you know, collectively grieve, mourn, share their art, connect unconditionally with a room full of people that they know are safe to be with. They know they’re safe to express these views, you know, artistically express their grief, and their trauma, and that it’s a room where we’re all there for the same reason. We’re all here to kind of you know, support one another through this. It’s a very community kind of space. So the fact that it’s being made a fundraiser is kind of like a bonus, because with poetry and having poets that are getting up, uh, like for me, I’ve always viewed poetry as, you know, a very cathartic method, um, of art. Um, a cathartic medium. And, um, I’ve always viewed it as this space to kind of create these unconditional connections with complete strangers that you otherwise probably wouldn’t have crossed paths with, or ever would have been prompted to have specific conversations with.

Hawraa: So I love that it’s it’s a space of collective healing and community. And in coming together, let’s, you know, also pitch in to one another. And that’s also why this time around, we’ve made it ticketed so that, 100% of the tickets goes towards the funds. Yeah. Um, and then people on the night can donate, um, you know, however much they feel they can or want to. But at the same time, we’re setting a baseline. The Grace Darling Hotel has been extremely generous and giving us the space. We’re all doing this, um, on a volunteer basis. So that’s also why we felt, you know, we were in a good position to, you know what? Let’s set a nominal ticket amount and 100% of it goes towards the, the fundraiser. And, um, bonus point, we’re coming together. We’re sharing an art. We’re sharing in grief. Um, you know, we’re meeting up with our friends. So I feel like with this what’s different about this fundraiser in particular? It’s very community, very wholesome. And it’s not a bunch of – there’s no elitism about it. I feel like it’s also important.

Shy: But also important questions are being asked on the back end of things like this, like, I think very important considerations. Absolutely, you know, who are the poets? Do they represent the right communities, like are we giving priorities to like Palestinians, Arabs, First Nations? Who are we platforming? Yeah. Whether it’s like the audience that the the who are platforming the kind of art who are the emcees not just like optics, but also just considerations for like why it matters, how it matters, and to be able to have those conversations in spaces where, like, we’re literally dealing with two straight white men.

Hawraa: I have to give them credit.

Shy: I have to give them so much credit!

Hawraa: Not only literally passing the mic, but like, not even. Challenging us ever when because the sole purpose of bringing us together, like in the organizing capacity in the background is there like we want to do the heavy lifting so that you’re not exhausting your capacities. But we want to consult with you as our guiding arrow like as our compass, to make sure that we’re on the right track, and having those critical conversations and doing our due diligence. Because I think with this movement, as much as we want people to be on the same side of us, and have the same views, etc., There’s some integrity and not everybody, can come on, for example, if you’ve got someone that’s expressing, you know, pro-Palestine views, but is anti-black, you know, or is misogynistic or, homophobic, you know, just because you happen to be, you know, in agreeance on this thing, you know, we’ve got into the movement, has integrity. Yeah. And I think it’s critical that we are having these conversations. And to be frank, I don’t think I’ve ever been in a space like that at that level of consultation.

Shy: Neither, and.

Hawraa: Willingness to listen and be rejected as well, because they’ve put suggestions and either yourself or myself will say, yeah, I don’t think that’s a good idea. Yeah. And we’ll explain ourselves. And we’d also open for conversations. They’re not precious. There’s no ego about it. No. And I think that’s very unique.

Shy: Yeah, I really I love that there’s no ego or or I guess. Yeah, there’s, there’s none of that pressure to, to to go a certain way or sway a different way but. Mhm.

Hawraa: But I love the energy of the last couple of times that we’ve had it. And I’m really looking forward to like the high energy of this next round. Um, Becs, I’m gonna throw you under the bus here. Yes, you were an audience member for round two of poets for Palestine back in March. Yes. What? What did you think of the night as an audience member?

Rebecca: I went to the second offering, which was the Grace Darling again. And it was a sultry summer night. And everyone flocked in after work. And when I was in the space, actually, this is the first poetry event that I had attended.

Hawraa: Seriously, ever? And you know me?

Rebecca: So I hadn’t attended in that in that way. I may have seen some poets, poetry performed, but not in a specific like poetry offering event. And to me, I saw a few things happening. The catharsis, as you said, of the performers and the poets sharing their story. I hope you don’t mind me mentioning, I learnt a lot about your personal story, of course, as well. And I learnt about you surviving the 2006 War on Lebanon, which even though, like you said, I do know you and you’re my friend. I didn’t know that, story of your life. You obviously offering so much in sharing that. And I learned so much about you. And what I observed from such stories is that this issue of what’s happening in Palestine, Lebanon – the Middle East is always shown as this faraway place, in Australia. And sometimes there is a sentiment amongst the Australian community that the issues are so far off what’s happening and why should we care? And I’m generalizing, obviously, because we obviously have had a great amount of support. But sometimes that’s an attitude that exists, right? But these stories and these offerings actually show how connected people in Australia are directly, and I hope that it would open their minds to how they themselves are connected, whether it’s where they’re working or where their tax money is going. I hope that they would be questioning and asking bigger questions and seeing that they are connected.

Rebecca: Yeah. And then on that same token, seeing how they can be involved and support, support something like the PCRF, which is in Palestine, but also PARA, as you mentioned, where this will event will be fundraising for. That’s something that in Australia we can help with. We can support Palestinians that have arrived recently, arrived from this situation. So when I was there in February, that’s what it opened my mind to. And like you said, it was a space to be in a room and just feel and just be. And that’s what I really appreciated. Just everyone being together, Arabs and Non-Arabs alike and allies of the community altogether and people coming with a curiosity as well. Just to listen and be a witness to these stories. It’s all so valid. And I really want to say how important these events are, in this time and in this space. So, as you said, I hope. Yes, ideally, we don’t need to keep doing these. Hopefully one day it’s like that. But at the moment it’s very much needed. And I hope that the storytelling can continue, because I think there’s so many stories to be told now of what’s happening. But also, like yourself, what has happened, what has happened not even 20 years ago, recent history, what has happened that has impacted people here now and what they’re working with. So those were my reflections of the event and definitely looking forward to the next one.

Shy: So nice.

Hawraa: That was wonderful to hear. Rebecca. That was so, validating so validating.

Shy: Can you write our memoirs? Yeah. [laughter]

Hawraa: Can you be like our reviewer? You know, how we reach, how people reach out to, like, reviewers and stuff? You can be our review. That could be part of our promo. Be like, so,  Rebecca vouches for. Yeah. Reviewed by Rebecca from from 3ZZZ.

Rebecca: Actually, it is a good blog name.

Hawraa: Reviewed by Rebecca. Why not?

Shy: Right before we wrap up, I want to go back to my favorite word, resilience.  I love that I said that it’s a love hate relationship.

Rebecca: Love all ‘R’ words.

Shy: Yeah, yeah, exactly. resilience.

Hawraa: Um, not race relations. No. Carry on. No. [laughter]

Shy: Not racism. I think, something interesting about the word resilience is. Like in situations in contexts like activism and specifically with with what’s going on in Gaza. Like it when it is so far away? To Rebecca’s point, I think they make us think that resilience is being able to show up to work and not cry. Yep. And like essentially it’s so internal. It’s like, “oh, they’re so brave and they’re so resilient because they’re not showing us their pain.” But spaces like this, like something like Poetry for Palestine is like it’s it’s a term that I like to call like rage resilience. And like resilience is being able to come to a space and like show your rage and feel it in the room and like that feeling of catharsis, and anger and collective healing through anger and rage does feel like something that is extremely resilient for me because it means I can go out and hopefully all of the other people in the room can go out and work that week and interact with people that week and not have to hold it in. Yeah, because they’ve had a space to let it out. Yes. And that that’s what that really feels like for me.

Hawraa: In a space to let their guard down, because I don’t know about others but myself, like my guards, always up, always like in work spaces, social settings, my guards always up. Especially if I’m walking out in my keffiyeh. Or I’m overheard in conversation because like whilst it is physically far away, it is very much in my life and it’s very much all consuming this specifically. So it’s gonna come up in my conversations, in my social circles, and I’m not hush hush about it, so someone’s bound to overhear me. So it’s just to be able to have that drop shoulder, breathing out sigh of relief in a space like Poets for Palestine, where I can just be like, yeah, this is you’re all here for the same reason. So I’m not gonna sugarcoat it. I’m not gonna dance around it. I’m not gonna dance around my rage, my grief or my feelings about any of this. Because It’s that space where I can just have this, like, sigh of relief. I can drop my shoulders, drop my guard, and let it out, and then it recharges me in terms of my social capacity in other spaces, like at work, where I have to be professional, where I have to, you know, park this part of me as if like, it’s not happening. As if, like, my family isn’t displaced and, you know, people aren’t actively dying, or being killed, rather. Yeah, passive language. I’ll smile and I have to smile through that. Oh, the war. Or if someone’s like, so how are you? Or like, you know, just like normal conversation. Like, do you want the real answer or do you want the short answer. Poets for Palestine, it’s going to be a wonderful space. I’m really looking forward to sharing in, in that kind of community. The 26th of June, 7 p.m, Grace Darling Hotel, Collingwood.

Shy: Tickets can be found online at Vibe Union, I’m pretty sure that’s the website Google Vibe Union if you can’t find them.

Rebecca: And we’ve put it up on the 3ZZZ events page on the website. So if you were to go to 3ZZZ website and also leave it in the show notes as well. So if you’re listening, just scroll down now and you can find the link.

Hawraa: Palestinians and First Nations people,get in for free, of course. We are still open to poets if anyone’s interested in signing up on the night, um, or beforehand to put your name as part of the lineup. Um, we are prioritizing Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian and First Nations voices. Of course, you know, allies are welcome.

Shy: If you have a poem about Palestine that you have wanted or something, adjacent.

Hawraa: Stories of displacement, stories of, you know, indigenous plight, um, or intergenerational trauma or resilience and resistance and, you know, anything adjacent to that. It’s the space to get it out there totally.

Shy: Are you going to be sharing?

Hawraa: I’m torn because, I’m so looking forward to working with you. And I know sometimes it helps to set the tone by starting off with, like, a short poem. The last, uh, performance I had, um, which was like a week ago, I was part of a lineup. It really took it out of me because I ripped open a wound that I didn’t know was there. And I’ve kind of still been very raw from it, and it was necessary. I had to. I have no regrets, but it really tore me apart, um, to do it. And, um, that’s why I’m torn about whether or not to do, like, a little piece to kind of kick off the night or just just get on with my emceeing. So I’ll see what my capacity is. But I would love to see you do a poem, um, while you’re emceeing because you just. Are just so skilled and I love what you do with words, and I love how you own the stage. And I’m just like, in awe of you. So please, I’d love to see that.

Shy: I will try. I’m currently working on a piece called Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Hawraa: Yum! So tell me more.

Shy: If I finished that piece. If I finish it, then I will perform it

Rebecca: Are we looking forward to seeing that all happening? Thank you both for being here today and providing such a space, a safe and inclusive space at this time. I will say, as we wrap up, as these conversations and themes have brought about, it’s really important to check in with our friends and our community at this time. There was lots of hugs at the last event, and tears and tears and snaps. Hawraa, do you want to explain? Because I learned this from attending last time. What do these clicks and snaps mean at a poetry show?

Hawraa: So when you’re listening to, spoken word poetry, um, instead of clapping while you’re listening to them, you click if a line that they’ve just said, really hits or really lands with you, you know, you felt that deeply. Um, and instead of, uh, you don’t clap because it disrupts the poet because they’ve got a rhythm. They’re in a particular headspace about it. So instead of clapping, you click or you, or you hiss like if you’ve heard something that’s like, they’ve just slammed, something really resonated, really resonating. So by doing that, it lets the poet know, like while they’re performing, that what they’re saying is really landing, like they’re being heard, they’re being seen, they’re being felt like the audience is connecting and it’s and the audience is there with them. So before any poetry event or even an event where it’s not a poetry event and I’m there to perform poetry, like right now, um, uh, I make sure I do that as part of housekeeping with the audience to let them know, like, you know, express it, let them know, let the poet know, because it’s very vulnerable. And also, like artists are starved for validation 100%.

Shy: Also, clapping and screaming is sometimes like, I think a lot of people, like when they’re in a group, get really scared about having to like, be the first one to start clapping in case they feel stupid, in case no one else catches on right, or chant if you’re a rally. Lots of these things. But when like, I think what’s interesting is introverts, you can actually still snap because you don’t have to snap up here. You can snap down there and no one is even going to know it’s you. And so you start these snaps going, but no one knows you started it. Yeah. So it’s like and it.

Hawraa: Doesn’t have to be a collective thing. Like an applause. Right? Like if you start an applause, the whole room starts to applaud with you. Whereas like, you don’t ever get like one individual applauding, but with snaps like you can it, it moves across the room. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the entire room snapping all at the same time. It is that person, that individual in the audience. Felt that like it, it landed with them. What you just said. Um. Or how you said it like. So it is like exactly what you said. Like it’s really great for people that don’t know. They get reluctant or hesitant to, like, start an applause or whether or not they can, you know, engage the room. But yeah, snapping is an individual thing. It’s like I felt that as an audience.

Rebecca: Member, like that line related to me. Yeah, I love it. So for all the clicks, snaps, hugs, tees, solidarity, resilience, we’ll see you at the Grace Darling Hotel very soon for the third installation of poets for Palestine. Our end shy. Thank you so much for being here with me today.

Hawraa: Thanks for having us.

[End of Transcript]

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